tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5439168179960787195.post2170841583077826089..comments2024-03-18T17:18:38.829+10:00Comments on Condensed concepts: Metric madness: McNamara and the militaryRoss H. McKenziehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09950455939572097456noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5439168179960787195.post-33301153149828454692016-12-13T23:31:17.906+10:002016-12-13T23:31:17.906+10:00There's a particularly good discussion of the ...There's a particularly good discussion of the ideology and problems with planning via metrics in James Scott's 'Seeing Like A State', along with numerous examples of how not to do centralised metric-based planning.DDOwennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5439168179960787195.post-9553252761950572992016-12-11T04:11:51.350+10:002016-12-11T04:11:51.350+10:00Seth, thanks for the suggestion. But, I don't ...Seth, thanks for the suggestion. But, I don't think I am qualified. I had to Google their names to find out who they were.Ross H. McKenziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09950455939572097456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5439168179960787195.post-3938640713939129932016-12-11T04:10:12.596+10:002016-12-11T04:10:12.596+10:00McNamara had as much success at the World Bank as ...McNamara had as much success at the World Bank as he did in the Vietnam war because he had the same metric and management mentality. Unfortunately, his approach set the model for poverty alleviation programs. In hindsight, many of these did more harm than good. Many actually enriched USA companies rather than helping the poor in the Majority World. The goals and methods of these programs were set by wealthy Westerners rather than by consulting with locals. Moving beyond these World Bank failures is what the "Aid at the Edge of Chaos" book is about.<br /><br />McNamara's example shows that management by metrics may work well for a Ford car assembly plant but fail in vastly different contexts: a jungle war in South East Asia, or alleviating the poverty of subsistence farmers in rural India.<br />Thus, we should be wary about applying it to scientific research.Ross H. McKenziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09950455939572097456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5439168179960787195.post-7742959918205899922016-12-11T04:00:28.938+10:002016-12-11T04:00:28.938+10:00Thanks for the comment.
I agree that laziness is ...Thanks for the comment.<br /><br />I agree that laziness is a factor. Lack of trust is also a factor. This is not just of scientists but of everyone receiving public money from artists to politicians to welfare recipients to public school teachers to companies receiving "bail outs". In some cases this lack of trust may be justified and greater public accountability is required. On the other hand it seems the focus seems to end up being on people at the "bottom of the pile" [welfare recipients and Ph.D student travel funds] rather than those at the "top" [university VCs and bank CEOs].<br /><br />However, overall I think the problem is political: the rise of the neoliberal managerial class. Their power, income, and social standing requires the use of metrics to justify their decision making.Ross H. McKenziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09950455939572097456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5439168179960787195.post-69888675635810662092016-12-10T21:46:43.673+10:002016-12-10T21:46:43.673+10:00The h-index, the citation rating, impact factors a...The h-index, the citation rating, impact factors and the aspiring researcher<br />Til Wykes, Sonya Lipczynska & Martin Guha<br />http://dx.doi.org/10.3109/09638237.2013.850153, Journal of mental health, 2013, 22(6), 467-473. Extract below from the above paper <br /><br />"Take the case of Ike Antkare who was outed as a fake in 2010 in a paper purportingto be written by himself (Labbé, 2010). At that time, he had 102 publications and an h-indexof 94 which at that time was less than Freud, (h-index of 183), but better than Einstein in the 36th position with a h-index of 84. Using one of the other Google metrics, the hm-index, IkeAntkare was in the sixth position outclassing all scientists in his field (computer science).This was carried out using a computer programme that generated fake papers, which each referenced all the other papers generated. All that had to happen to be included on Google Scholar was to refer in the paper to a paper already referenced in Google Scholar.Once on Google Scholar, of course, there were then references to Ike in all the other metrics generating systems"<br /><br />Einstein has different number in google scholar . Here is the number from <br /><br />http://www.webometrics.info/en/node/58<br />There are 876 listed with higher h index than Einstein<br />Albert Einstein Institute of Advanced Studies Princeton h index =109 citations =97303 Freud top the list in google scholar with h index of 266. <br /><br />yes, why manage science by metrics? <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5439168179960787195.post-24937846947441308812016-12-10T06:52:07.558+10:002016-12-10T06:52:07.558+10:00Except that it's not the excplicit role of fir...Except that it's not the excplicit role of fire ants to serve the public (in [finding a way to and then] funding the best science).<br /><br />I agree if your remark is based in how feasible it maybe.<br />Although for important issues it may be good to be idealistic...pcshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03647766316634749128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5439168179960787195.post-47510387958352732722016-12-10T00:18:56.664+10:002016-12-10T00:18:56.664+10:00I agree, PCS, but I also think that asking funding...I agree, PCS, but I also think that asking funding agencies to do this is a little like asking fire ants to retreat from Queensland because it is more liveable for us without them.Seth Olsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09304457461800104790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5439168179960787195.post-64533696442558067082016-12-10T00:15:02.506+10:002016-12-10T00:15:02.506+10:00You know, Ross, I think that a post on the works o...You know, Ross, I think that a post on the works of Taylor and Gilbreth would be very appropriate for this blog. Would you consider it?<br />Seth Olsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09304457461800104790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5439168179960787195.post-31165374277153485802016-12-10T00:10:00.943+10:002016-12-10T00:10:00.943+10:00Since replying, I see that McNamara did not ascend...Since replying, I see that McNamara did not ascend to a University Vice-Chancellorship, Deanship, etc. but instead went on to head the World Bank. I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on his tenure there.Seth Olsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09304457461800104790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5439168179960787195.post-14545523006741801082016-12-09T23:12:09.778+10:002016-12-09T23:12:09.778+10:00Quite stunning indeed.
My 2 cents to your last &q...Quite stunning indeed.<br /><br />My 2 cents to your last "why" question would be that people are lazy.<br />Comparing numbers does not require effort and bears the semblance of being objective.<br />And the worrying trend to distrust scientists makes people to oppose letting science be judged by scientists. When such peer evaluation is out, and without (scientific) understanding of the contents, nothing but number crunching remains.<br /><br />So, in the very long term, I think working on having society trust scientists again may be a (not the only) root cause.<br /><br />As a side note: I think the "people" could arguably be replaced by "funding agencies" - I know that's where people work, but my view is that if funding agencies change (stop looking so much at numbers), universities will change too because it will be clear that quality trumps quantity.<br />pcshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03647766316634749128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5439168179960787195.post-57274113700770361452016-12-09T22:57:27.941+10:002016-12-09T22:57:27.941+10:00What did McNamara do after the war? Did he end up...What did McNamara do after the war? Did he end up in a University VC chair? <br /><br />Funny, I read this just hours before your post, which is what made me ask the question:<br /><br />http://blogs.nature.com/naturejobs/2016/11/30/return-to-academia-the-price-im-willing-to-pay/?WT.mc_id=EMX_NJOBS_0111_NATUREJOBSNEWSLETTER&WT.ec_id=EXTERNALSeth Olsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09304457461800104790noreply@blogger.com